Hello, I am Heidi. I live in MX and my husband and I are in the process of buying a 35 acre piece of land. It’s basically a hilltop and the sides all the way down to where they meet with the other hills. They are nestled up to the northern side of a larger mountain. It’s all virgin land and very fertile. I’m trying to plan. I’d like any opinions on what to plant of the hillsides and since one gets slightly more sun than the other what would be better on the shadier side? I am planning on going with a permaculture style plan. Swales and layering the plants to compliment each other.
The top will be for the main house and vegetables. I’ll be putting in plenty of fruit trees that do well here. It never freezes. 40s is the lowest I’ve ever seen it and upper 90s is the hottest but only for a couple months a year before the rains start.
There’s already allot of trees growing so there’s about a foot of dried leaves on the hillsides. I’ve got a ton to work with and wanna start mapping it all out.
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Hillside planting
Hello and welcome to the forum!
I'm a bit jealous :) 40s and no frost. I want this so badly but my husband would not agree.
Did you know... leaves have all the nutrients a vegetable garden needs except one thing. That one thing can be found in grass. So if you mix leaves and grass, you have the perfect compost.
Keep in mind though that this kind of compost only has 10% of the potency that commercial fertilizer like 10-10-10 has. I am a 100% organic gardener and never use commercial fertilizer. I save huge piles of grass and leaves and once decomposed they turn to great soil. I then dig holes in the planting areas, fill each hole with the soil and place my plants in the holes. It works great.
For fruit trees, I am in a cold climate and we can grow very little here so I'm not sure what you can grow there.
Look into peach trees. From seed (pit) germination to eating a peach can be as quick as 5 years. 10 to 15 years for apples.
Do you have experience with growing vegetables or are you new to it?
I'm a bit jealous :) 40s and no frost. I want this so badly but my husband would not agree.
Did you know... leaves have all the nutrients a vegetable garden needs except one thing. That one thing can be found in grass. So if you mix leaves and grass, you have the perfect compost.
Keep in mind though that this kind of compost only has 10% of the potency that commercial fertilizer like 10-10-10 has. I am a 100% organic gardener and never use commercial fertilizer. I save huge piles of grass and leaves and once decomposed they turn to great soil. I then dig holes in the planting areas, fill each hole with the soil and place my plants in the holes. It works great.
For fruit trees, I am in a cold climate and we can grow very little here so I'm not sure what you can grow there.
Look into peach trees. From seed (pit) germination to eating a peach can be as quick as 5 years. 10 to 15 years for apples.
Do you have experience with growing vegetables or are you new to it?
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arizonaranchgirl
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:53 pm
Re: Hillside planting
Thanks for your advice!page4 wrote:Hello and welcome to the forum!
I'm a bit jealous :) 40s and no frost. I want this so badly but my husband would not agree.
Did you know... leaves have all the nutrients a vegetable garden needs except one thing. That one thing can be found in grass. So if you mix leaves and grass, you have the perfect compost.
Keep in mind though that this kind of compost only has 10% of the potency that commercial fertilizer like 10-10-10 has. I am a 100% organic gardener and never use commercial fertilizer. I save huge piles of grass and leaves and once decomposed they turn to great soil. I then dig holes in the planting areas, fill each hole with the soil and place my plants in the holes. It works great.
For fruit trees, I am in a cold climate and we can grow very little here so I'm not sure what you can grow there.
Look into peach trees. From seed (pit) germination to eating a peach can be as quick as 5 years. 10 to 15 years for apples.
Do you have experience with growing vegetables or are you new to it?
I didn’t realize the fact about leaves + grass. It sounds like it will work out great because on top there’s plenty of grass and the hillsides have so many leaves. I have used just the leaves for the past few years in my small garden and this year everything has finally done wonderfully and there’s red wrigglers all throughout the soil. I do a compost pile of food scraps leaves and grass on a small scale. I’ve been living here in a town sized lot for 7 years. I’ve learned so so much during this time.
I did grow up on an organic beef farm. Alfalfa and oat fields plus big gardens. But I was young and didn’t pay to much attention to the methods we used. So having my own garden has helped me. And I’ve made it a point to not use any fertilizers. Just what nature provides. I hope to continue doing the same on the property with the help of animals this time. I have no animals here and only have gotten a few bags of chicken poo from friends once in awhile.
Peach trees for sure do well in the area. I will do that. Apples too. And I have a loquat tree, also abundant here. It gave its first fruit after 4 years from seed and my daughters spit the seeds all around the yard so now I have babies to take to the property when the time comes.
I’ll also do Moringa which is my main thing here at my town garden. I have been dreaming for years of a Moringa grove. And they grow so so fast! I’ll get some babies going in containers soon to take and plant when I can. I’m not sure they will survive the dry season without extra watering and I’m not sure how soon we will have a catchment system and be living there to care for trees and such. But I want to try and get things going anyways.
And yes! The climate here is a dream! I grew up in Az , southern then later northern Az. And the late frosts and early first frosts really limited us. I’m happy not to deal with that although the cool weather definitely takes allot of things out eventually. Dh is from right around here so the move was easy for us. But I’ve been stuck in the city for too many years now and I’m so happy I’m finally going to escape! Haha!
On one end I feel ready but on the other end I know there’s so much more I’m not thinking of right now.
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Awesome picture! How about wild animals around there? I'm especially thinking of animals that might like vegetables or young trees.
I am in Upstate NY and we have fences all over the place (We have 3 food plots).
Here is a picture, my husband took that one 3 weeks ago, it looks quite different now.
We have two pet sheep, I call them my manure machines :)
I try to plant 2 apple trees every year. I germinate the apple seeds by freezing them first and then refrigerating them in wet paper towel.
Did you know... when you plant an apple tree from seed, you never know what kind of an apple you will get because no matter which apple you get the seed from, it will be a different apple tree in the end. If you want specific apples, you'd need to buy some trees first, then graft later.
Our growing season is very short here in Upstate, but you see the greenhouse there in the picture. I extend the growing season by having many vegetables in the greenhouse.
Regarding the compost pile, oh we have huge ones. We only turn them twice a year and I have black soil within two years.
The trick is to make the piles huge. Also, when you collect leaves in fall, they should be wet when piling them up. I usually wait until after a rain to rake them and pile them up.
By the way, may I ask how you found this forum? It's pretty quiet here, so I didn't think anyone would find it.
I am in Upstate NY and we have fences all over the place (We have 3 food plots).
Here is a picture, my husband took that one 3 weeks ago, it looks quite different now.
We have two pet sheep, I call them my manure machines :)
I try to plant 2 apple trees every year. I germinate the apple seeds by freezing them first and then refrigerating them in wet paper towel.
Did you know... when you plant an apple tree from seed, you never know what kind of an apple you will get because no matter which apple you get the seed from, it will be a different apple tree in the end. If you want specific apples, you'd need to buy some trees first, then graft later.
Our growing season is very short here in Upstate, but you see the greenhouse there in the picture. I extend the growing season by having many vegetables in the greenhouse.
Regarding the compost pile, oh we have huge ones. We only turn them twice a year and I have black soil within two years.
The trick is to make the piles huge. Also, when you collect leaves in fall, they should be wet when piling them up. I usually wait until after a rain to rake them and pile them up.
By the way, may I ask how you found this forum? It's pretty quiet here, so I didn't think anyone would find it.
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arizonaranchgirl
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:53 pm
Re: Hillside planting
Hi again!
I guess I just looked for homesteading and it was somewhere in the results ha!
Your garden is beautiful and the fence looks perfect.
I was sleepless last night wondering about animals also. I’m not sure exactly what I’ll have to deal with but I do know common pests might be rabbits and squirrels. Of course there are probably coyotes around and I’ve heard there’s some deer that drink from a small spring on the property but haven’t confirmed it myself yet. Deer here tend to be sparse due to there not being any hunting restrictions. Nothing can be too bad compared to my childhood though where we had mountain lions around and Gila monsters plus many rattlers. I’ve so far only seen harmless rodent eating snakes here.
I also couldn’t sleep thinking about the road that goes through the property. It’s just a little dirt road and apparently only 2 people own properties on the other end and only very occasionally need to pass through. But of course we like privacy so I suddenly realized I could line it with trees and my brain almost exploded haha! I love roads lined with trees! It’s definitely a neuro association from my childhood.
Then I was having an internal discussion about whether I should do just fast growing moringas or mix in the slower flowering and fruit trees as well. Moringas loose all their leaves here when they send out the seed pods so I was thinking mixed since leafless trees aren’t much of a view blocker. On the other hand loquat trees are kind of fast growing and don’t loose their leaves ever here.
Then i was wondering if I’ll need fences around the gardens, and if I should plan a smaller garden close to the house with raised beds that I can half fill with logs and leaves since there’s many trees as well that are dried on the property. I have block beds here and they have made all the difference in my little garden. Also the animals I’ll need to fend off from the food. So it was such a hard night to actually turn the brain off hahaha
Once again, thank you for the info about apples. I didn’t know that! I know I’ve seen lots of grafted fruit trees sold here. From mangos to avocados and I’m sure the other fruits as well. Citrus and tropical types do well here.
I would make the top all one big garden and a little barnyard, but my husband will be using a good chunk for a little runway. He flys fpv planes and it’s his dream to make his own little runway outside his front door someday.
So I’ll basically have half the top for my garden and animals and alllllll the slopes for myself. I’m thinking long swales along the hillsides and plant rows of trees in them. It would end up looking very pretty. Also my main thing aside from growing food is herbs , thus the moringas. So I’m imagining small swale herb gardens sprinkled around the hillsides as well. I’m just unsure which side of the hill will be best for what plants. I guess I’ve got live there first and see the sunlight.
I have plenty of animal experience so animal plans are:, first chickens, We also raised Shetland and other breeds of sheep for wool. We would card spin dye and weave it ourselves. So with that experience and caring for a flock of 40 in the past, I hope for just a couple sheep. Especially if we could get shetlands, merinos or Lincoln.
A cow would be great down the road once we are permanently installed. I also milked our cows so that’s not new. And for pure pleasure I’d like a horse or two eventually. My dream guard dog is a Great Pyrenees. We also raised them. But idk how easy they are to find here. A Border collie is also great.
Anyways haha, those are my mental plans at the moment. I can’t wait to actually plant and begin seeing the land turn into this vision we have.
Thanks for all the very good input and tips. Anymore you have I’ll gladly take!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I guess I just looked for homesteading and it was somewhere in the results ha!
Your garden is beautiful and the fence looks perfect.
I was sleepless last night wondering about animals also. I’m not sure exactly what I’ll have to deal with but I do know common pests might be rabbits and squirrels. Of course there are probably coyotes around and I’ve heard there’s some deer that drink from a small spring on the property but haven’t confirmed it myself yet. Deer here tend to be sparse due to there not being any hunting restrictions. Nothing can be too bad compared to my childhood though where we had mountain lions around and Gila monsters plus many rattlers. I’ve so far only seen harmless rodent eating snakes here.
I also couldn’t sleep thinking about the road that goes through the property. It’s just a little dirt road and apparently only 2 people own properties on the other end and only very occasionally need to pass through. But of course we like privacy so I suddenly realized I could line it with trees and my brain almost exploded haha! I love roads lined with trees! It’s definitely a neuro association from my childhood.
Then I was having an internal discussion about whether I should do just fast growing moringas or mix in the slower flowering and fruit trees as well. Moringas loose all their leaves here when they send out the seed pods so I was thinking mixed since leafless trees aren’t much of a view blocker. On the other hand loquat trees are kind of fast growing and don’t loose their leaves ever here.
Then i was wondering if I’ll need fences around the gardens, and if I should plan a smaller garden close to the house with raised beds that I can half fill with logs and leaves since there’s many trees as well that are dried on the property. I have block beds here and they have made all the difference in my little garden. Also the animals I’ll need to fend off from the food. So it was such a hard night to actually turn the brain off hahaha
Once again, thank you for the info about apples. I didn’t know that! I know I’ve seen lots of grafted fruit trees sold here. From mangos to avocados and I’m sure the other fruits as well. Citrus and tropical types do well here.
I would make the top all one big garden and a little barnyard, but my husband will be using a good chunk for a little runway. He flys fpv planes and it’s his dream to make his own little runway outside his front door someday.
So I’ll basically have half the top for my garden and animals and alllllll the slopes for myself. I’m thinking long swales along the hillsides and plant rows of trees in them. It would end up looking very pretty. Also my main thing aside from growing food is herbs , thus the moringas. So I’m imagining small swale herb gardens sprinkled around the hillsides as well. I’m just unsure which side of the hill will be best for what plants. I guess I’ve got live there first and see the sunlight.
I have plenty of animal experience so animal plans are:, first chickens, We also raised Shetland and other breeds of sheep for wool. We would card spin dye and weave it ourselves. So with that experience and caring for a flock of 40 in the past, I hope for just a couple sheep. Especially if we could get shetlands, merinos or Lincoln.
A cow would be great down the road once we are permanently installed. I also milked our cows so that’s not new. And for pure pleasure I’d like a horse or two eventually. My dream guard dog is a Great Pyrenees. We also raised them. But idk how easy they are to find here. A Border collie is also great.
Anyways haha, those are my mental plans at the moment. I can’t wait to actually plant and begin seeing the land turn into this vision we have.
Thanks for all the very good input and tips. Anymore you have I’ll gladly take!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow. I wow-ed when I read all of that :)
You know... our home was on 200 acres, but we only bought 5 of them. The rest was put back up for sale and a family purchased it and they made an airstrip to take off and land their plane. Sounds familiar, eh?
The gentleman has an excavating business so he made the airstrip himself. If you have to have someone else do it, it could get super expensive. Is it rocky there at all?
For the trees, morningas are the fastest growing as far as I know, but I haven't really looked it up. I know they can grow up to 16 or 18 feet in just 6 months.
I am totally not familiar with the area there. Can you grow pine trees there? Those are evergreen and would always block the view. They don't grow super quick, but it adds up after a few years.
Since I'm not familiar with your area I also can't comment on what kind of protection you need from animals but since you mentioned rabbits and squirrels, say goodbye to the carrots, the lettuce, and the corn unless you have decent protection.
Deer easily jump over a 7 foot tall fence. I've seen them do it, and they did it with great ease. We have many deer around here.
In my experience, year after year, the deer will not try to come in the food plots until the very end of the season.
Raised beds are great. If not, planting in hills is a must.
We used to have chickens but I'm not good with that. I literally cried when one after the other died of old age. Needless to say, they all had a name :)
Border collies are great, they are awesome dogs. Among my favs.
When you had sheep, how did you wash the wool? My husband wants to keep it every year, and now we have years worth of (unwashed) wool, just sitting there in big bags.
You know... our home was on 200 acres, but we only bought 5 of them. The rest was put back up for sale and a family purchased it and they made an airstrip to take off and land their plane. Sounds familiar, eh?
The gentleman has an excavating business so he made the airstrip himself. If you have to have someone else do it, it could get super expensive. Is it rocky there at all?
For the trees, morningas are the fastest growing as far as I know, but I haven't really looked it up. I know they can grow up to 16 or 18 feet in just 6 months.
I am totally not familiar with the area there. Can you grow pine trees there? Those are evergreen and would always block the view. They don't grow super quick, but it adds up after a few years.
Since I'm not familiar with your area I also can't comment on what kind of protection you need from animals but since you mentioned rabbits and squirrels, say goodbye to the carrots, the lettuce, and the corn unless you have decent protection.
Deer easily jump over a 7 foot tall fence. I've seen them do it, and they did it with great ease. We have many deer around here.
In my experience, year after year, the deer will not try to come in the food plots until the very end of the season.
Raised beds are great. If not, planting in hills is a must.
We used to have chickens but I'm not good with that. I literally cried when one after the other died of old age. Needless to say, they all had a name :)
Border collies are great, they are awesome dogs. Among my favs.
When you had sheep, how did you wash the wool? My husband wants to keep it every year, and now we have years worth of (unwashed) wool, just sitting there in big bags.
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arizonaranchgirl
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:53 pm
Re: Hillside planting
Oh how cool, the guy with the airstrip! We will be diy-ing it. It’s very easy to rent machinery here for a day or even hours for very reasonable prices.
You reminded me about pines! Yes they do great here also. I didn’t see any news j the property itself. But there are some particularly beautiful species around here. We are a mere 2 hrs from the overwintering Monarch location. And those pines are huge and so so beautiful! I’ll definitely have to use some! Thanks!
I have about 7 biggish moringas from seed in my current garden. I love these trees so much. Aside from all the benefits they are just very easy and love being pruned. My small garden was horrid when I started and now with these moringas and the beds it’s so enjoyable and functional at the same time.
The picture doesn’t do it justice as right now the seed pods are drying and the new leaves are just barely beginning to come out. It’s a pic from my rooftop patio. In the right bottom corner is my Loquat tree I also planted from seed. It’s 7 years old and this is its 3 rd year giving fruit.
I’ll come back again and update when we have more of a solid plan. I. The meantime I’m trying to gather as many seedlings as I can to take and get in the ground when possible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You reminded me about pines! Yes they do great here also. I didn’t see any news j the property itself. But there are some particularly beautiful species around here. We are a mere 2 hrs from the overwintering Monarch location. And those pines are huge and so so beautiful! I’ll definitely have to use some! Thanks!
I have about 7 biggish moringas from seed in my current garden. I love these trees so much. Aside from all the benefits they are just very easy and love being pruned. My small garden was horrid when I started and now with these moringas and the beds it’s so enjoyable and functional at the same time.
The picture doesn’t do it justice as right now the seed pods are drying and the new leaves are just barely beginning to come out. It’s a pic from my rooftop patio. In the right bottom corner is my Loquat tree I also planted from seed. It’s 7 years old and this is its 3 rd year giving fruit.
I’ll come back again and update when we have more of a solid plan. I. The meantime I’m trying to gather as many seedlings as I can to take and get in the ground when possible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice picture!
I envy you. Wish I could live in a less cold area.
In general, I feel that gardening is like a constant fight with wildlife, be it large or small critters, or ven insects.
Anyway, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
I try something new every year. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.
We're currently experimenting with giant Peruvian corn.
I envy you. Wish I could live in a less cold area.
In general, I feel that gardening is like a constant fight with wildlife, be it large or small critters, or ven insects.
Anyway, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
I try something new every year. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.
We're currently experimenting with giant Peruvian corn.
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arizonaranchgirl
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:53 pm
Re: Hillside planting
Well I definitely envy your beautiful garden and fence!
I’ve never been to NY but I’ve heard it’s beautiful and that there’s lots of nice race horses lol My family raised race horses so for some reason I have that bit of info about ny state in my head.
I am hoping to get as close to self sufficiency as I can. Im thinking the obvious bulk crops are corn , potatoes and root veggies, plus eventually the fruit I’ve mentioned. But im wondering if im missing any other possible major base crops besides grains. Of course here the main crop is corn. It’s usually paired with squash and winter squash and beans. This works so well so I’ll be doing it for sure. Potatoes are great also for good starchy filling food.
How is the giant Peruvian corn experiment going?
I did heirloom strawberry popcorn last year. It was actually a better producer than I expected and the mini popcorn was so much fun!
This is a pic of the other end my my garden right now. It’s so messy compared with yours. But I gave it a sabbatical year. So nothing you see was planted after last September. So this September I’ll get my hands into the soil again and get some fresh seeds going for what I still can.
There’s allot of feverfew and tulsi and some rue mixed in with the carrots chard and kohlrabis. A couple avocado trees that are still small and a mango tree. Plus pepper plants and my huge mama Aloe plus her babies alone the edge. In the pots in the side I’ve got a mixture of Malabar spinach, which is super fun, and leeks, beets and plenty of borage. You can’t see in this one but I’ve got echinacea and tumeric plus king of bitters and mint in the far end.
Since my space is small I’ve focused more on herbs than actually food. So I’m so excited to finally have the space soon for food.
You are right about the battle. I guess it keeps things interesting. And it makes me respect our ancestors who truly depended on their crops for survival and had to take it all so serious.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’ve never been to NY but I’ve heard it’s beautiful and that there’s lots of nice race horses lol My family raised race horses so for some reason I have that bit of info about ny state in my head.
I am hoping to get as close to self sufficiency as I can. Im thinking the obvious bulk crops are corn , potatoes and root veggies, plus eventually the fruit I’ve mentioned. But im wondering if im missing any other possible major base crops besides grains. Of course here the main crop is corn. It’s usually paired with squash and winter squash and beans. This works so well so I’ll be doing it for sure. Potatoes are great also for good starchy filling food.
How is the giant Peruvian corn experiment going?
I did heirloom strawberry popcorn last year. It was actually a better producer than I expected and the mini popcorn was so much fun!
This is a pic of the other end my my garden right now. It’s so messy compared with yours. But I gave it a sabbatical year. So nothing you see was planted after last September. So this September I’ll get my hands into the soil again and get some fresh seeds going for what I still can.
There’s allot of feverfew and tulsi and some rue mixed in with the carrots chard and kohlrabis. A couple avocado trees that are still small and a mango tree. Plus pepper plants and my huge mama Aloe plus her babies alone the edge. In the pots in the side I’ve got a mixture of Malabar spinach, which is super fun, and leeks, beets and plenty of borage. You can’t see in this one but I’ve got echinacea and tumeric plus king of bitters and mint in the far end.
Since my space is small I’ve focused more on herbs than actually food. So I’m so excited to finally have the space soon for food.
You are right about the battle. I guess it keeps things interesting. And it makes me respect our ancestors who truly depended on their crops for survival and had to take it all so serious.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice picture! I wish I could grow aloe outdoors here but due to the extremely cold temps, that's not possible.
Aha! I had no idea that NY was known for horse races. A friend of mine used to race horses at the track here.
I don't have pictures yet from this year's corn, time to take some!
Here are some from the previous year.
This was mid-season:
And this is my husband, harvesting corn:
When you live far out, I assume you will have a well.
Preserving water is important. We have a well too because we're too far out to get water from the city or town.
We just added a 3rd barrel. The barrels and the gutter have to be removed in fall and put back in spring. Snow and ice of the roof would destroy it all in wintertime.
BTW.. Corn, beans and quash are called the three sisters.
Aha! I had no idea that NY was known for horse races. A friend of mine used to race horses at the track here.
I don't have pictures yet from this year's corn, time to take some!
Here are some from the previous year.
This was mid-season:
And this is my husband, harvesting corn:
When you live far out, I assume you will have a well.
Preserving water is important. We have a well too because we're too far out to get water from the city or town.
We just added a 3rd barrel. The barrels and the gutter have to be removed in fall and put back in spring. Snow and ice of the roof would destroy it all in wintertime.
BTW.. Corn, beans and quash are called the three sisters.